All excellent points. I certainly have to admit that your points about the Core are valid. There are many other things going on there besides Metaverse or even GalCiv2. For a focused experience that's GalCiv2 Metaverse only without being confused by other things, having a separate AltMeta forum is a great idea. I don't think this has been previously suggested but it's something that will definitely go on the MVC's agenda.


I’m kind of using your quote out of context here, but what we're trying to do has many layers. The first layer is to accomplish as much as we can without any help from Stardock. The reason for this is that if we can do it ourselves, the odds of actually getting something accomplished go from virtually impossible to realistically possible.

For that reason it will be sometime before we would approach Stardock with any requests for in-game changes.

I'm not saying that Stardock is unresponsive to player desires, however the metaverse player is just a subset of all galciv2 players and even then their desires aren't necessarily homogenous. As I've mentioned many other times and places Stardock can't respond to every good idea supported by a few folks that pops up every now and then for a few days before being forgotten about.

The goal of the MVC is to prove we're capable of accomplishing something that provides a positive benefit for the community and to prove that as a group we represent the common desires of a larger subset of the community than just ourselves. With those things proven I feel it's much more likely to get assistance/support from Stardock. Even so it will always be better and quicker to get things done by ourselves if at all possible.

However, I believe that the implication that Stardock's assistance is required drive interest to the AltMeta is incorrect. As far as the numbers that certainly remains to be seen, but certainly there are far more than a dozen folks posting games to the Metaverse. If only a hundred folks are interested I would consider that a success. I would expect the potential to be probably closer to 500. Heck, if it takes off it could far exceed these modest expectations.

The impression that I get from posts like this is a sense of impatience. I certainly share that impatience but these things do take time and the only way to get anything done at all is to finish something before moving on to the next thing. Impatience here can be very counter-productive. As I mentioned, Macmatt has been in discussion with Cari in regards to an endgame.xml file that will never be supported in the ‘real’ metaverse but is probably the best chance of supporting metaverse mods, metaverse scenario’s and metaverse tournaments. Clearly you’ve shown that you can conceivably hold tournaments without this function but to be able to formally submit such games this kind of function is required. In any case we’re going to finish what we start before going on to the next thing. If the MVC isn’t appearing to move fast enough for some then I’m sorry, but there’s really nothing I can do about it. Real change takes time.

No, I'm not impatient, I had just never entered a suggestion before. I guess my point with getting an in game link is that it is hard to tell anyone the Altmeta exists unless they visit this website. If they are only playing the game, they would never know something else existed. Adding a button with a link to an external site would represent like a five minute programming resource dedication, so it isn't going to be labor intensive. Of course, I'm not asking stardock myself, just suggesting it is something you might want to think about asking for eventually.

I'm impatient about tournaments, because I have a lot of ideas. I decided to run a few without going through "official" channels because it seemed like something that could be done for immediate effect. I'll be happy to pass them over some day if you get to the point where you want to host them on the Altmeta.

And you know, I just noticed. I always play Dark Avatar, and yet the text on that metaverse page says Dread Lords. Stardock must have forgotten to update the graphics on that page.

This was more of a general statement that was not necessarily directed at you. It may even be a matter of externalizing my own impatience rather than the impatience of anyone else. I see all these potentially neat things to do and we're still struggling with the same things that we've been discussing for months. There's only so many times you can respond with "yes that's a great idea, we'd like to do that sometime in the future".

I know that if I was outside looking in, I'd be thinking "what are these guys doing, they keep talking and nothing ever happens". The thing is that the MVC can actually do very little. The game is Stardock's, the AltMeta is Kryo's. All the MVC is, is a representative group of metaverse players. All we own are our own opinions, all we can accomplish is what can be done by motivating others to do what we want. It's like trying to push a rope. Try it sometime.

That's why I get impatient and why I sometimes color the motivation others with impatience. Sorry.

Well, we are making progress.

We all knew the first few months would be a very difficult time. But I think that with Altmeta Brackets soon to hit the public eye it will be a lot easier for us to communicate and encourage others to contribute to the community, as well as help us in future projects because with the Brackets we will gain stability and hopefully some PR.

This will show how ignorant I am when it comes to computers, but how do you get that AltMeta box that can be displayed just above the medals when you post? I've seen the page on the AltMeta where you can copy a link in 3 different formats. I have no idea which one to use, and I haven't been able to find how to set it up so that it will be displayed when I post.

Thanks, and sorry this isn't entirely on topic. I just assumed this would grab the attention of some of the most savvy people on this forum. And the more people display those boxes, the more PR the AltMeta will get.

Just copy the one that says SD Forums and paste it in at the end of each post you make (no way to do it automatically, unfortunately). If you use Firefox I'd recommend the Clippings addon, which makes this much easier.

Thanks, Kryo! This is a test of that.

This is in regards to previous mentions of holding more of the Council's discussions here on the GC2 forum. Most of our past discussions have taken place at The Galactic Core.
I believe we could start a dedicated thread for a topic of discussion(ei. Metaverse Mods or Tourneys). If another idea that requires more in depth discussion comes up, it gets it's own thread started. Several active threads with their own topics can give people the chance to give their opinion where their interests lie and keep the discussions moving along. Maybe use 'MVC' at the beginning of each topic name so people know it's an MVC related discussion.

Everyone will get to not only see what we' have been up to, but can(and encouraged to) participate. Everyone should keep in mind, a lot of getting these ideas hashed out into doable form involves compromise and being open to others ideas.

Just a few thoughts on getting started, feel free to critique.   

I think maybe the Metaverse league thread could fit that description. If of course it becomes a project of the MVC and if it is AltMeta related. Of course with Ghostwes's blessing and permission, it is his idea of course.

I do however highly support having as many of the MVC discussions here on the GalCiv forum as possible. Of course keep the chambers at the core, some need of privacy is required, but i am all for having as much here as possible. The Core is'nt the most friendly noob place around, and the active players here are far higher than of that at the core....actually i'm assuming a little here but it seems that way.

Perhaps a Metaverse Council Senate, could be created as a sub section within the Metaverse forums and then all the MVC disscusions and the AltMeta thread could be located in there?

Is that possible? Kryo?

Unfortunately that's not really something we can do.

I also think that it's not all that necessary either. For good or ill the Metaverse forum has less activity than the GalCivII forums. It would be nice to have more activity in these forums but the lack of it means that any Metaverse Council threads are easy to pick out.

Also there's no real doubt that if we have something interesting to discuss that we will get sufficient attention regardless of where the thread is physically located.

A subsection wont be necessary, we would just divide traffic.

Just put MVC in as the first 3 letters of the title and I think it would be clear enough.

Yes we should all do this since it makes threads easy to find in a search.

Metaverse Council


To the Councilors of the Metaverse Council:

In an attempt to revive the Metaverse Council (also noted as "MVC"), I am putting forth for your consideration, the following proposals. Please note that some of these proposals may fundamentally change how the MVC is operated. Since I am not a member of the MVC, I present these to you to hear your feedback and ask for your timely action on these.

Thank you for taking this time,

Silverbeacher



Proposal 1- Council Member Organization

The Council has no minimum or maximum number of seats. It will be comprised of two kinds of officers as follows:

The Council will be made up of democratically-elected representatives from active empires. An active empire is considered any empire that has at least ten members and has active posted games on Kryo's AltMeta. Each active empire would be solely responsible for nominating and electing its own representative. Each active empire may not have more than two representatives.

The Council will also have At-Large Seats open to any individual not in an empire, or in an non-active empire. A non-active empire is any empire that has fewer than ten players and/or does not currently have active games on Kryo's AltMeta. An At-Large Representative requires the support of five players that are not currently represented by an individual already on the Council.

All members of the Council are required to have at least one metaverse game submitted to be eligible for representation.

The Council will select amongst itself a President to be its head. The President will be a non-voting member except in cases of a tie. The position that is vacated by that Representative will then be open for election.


Proposal 2- Promoting Inter-Empire Tournaments

Unlike the Metavese League where each player's personal contribution is important to how the League functions, I propose using the Tournament Scenario system to foster friendly competition amongst the Metaverse Empires. A Tournament would be set up, and anyone can participate.

The main difference is that only the top game per empire would be given points. Further expansion can be decided upon on a later date.


Proposal 3- Sticked Metaverse Empires Thread

This stickied thread would have in its OP a brief list of Metaverse Empires. The icon shown for each empire would be a clickable link to the respective home page of that empire. This thread is to showcase the various empires that are available to new players, and also a singular place for friendly taunting, banter, and discussion can occur.


Proposal 4- Supporting the AltMeta, ModMeta, and the Metaverse League

Not quite a proposal as more of an objective. To continue to expand on and renew interest in the AltMeta, ModMeta by MacMatt, and the Metaverse League. To continue to work and communicate with the developers about the inclusion of a Metaverse or similar function if a Galactic Civilizations III is released at a future date. And finally, to continue to fulfill the role of the MVC as the respected conduit for player concerns and ideas to reach the developers in a coherent and managed fashion.

Proposal 5- Public Disclosure

For future growth and viability, I strongly support full public availability of any future MVC undertaking. That is, I promote, keeping all MVC related information directly here on the GalCiv forums.

I thank you all again for taking the time to look over these proposals and I await your replies.

Sincerely,

Silverbeacher